Bonus Episode: The TallMikeWine Podcast/The Books Episode with Amy Mair

Hi Red Fern Listeners! I was recently a guest on a fabulous wine podcast called The TallMikeWine Podcast. Host Mike Stone and I talk about, what else, but books and wine.  I offer up a mini summer reading list and Mike explains how he comes up with all those wine adjectives. Mike is a self-professed wine geek who creates fun, relatable conversations around wine. And did I mention that he is a former disc jockey? Enjoy, and I will be back in the fall with a new lineup.

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Transcript

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Hey, Red Fern listeners. This is your host, Amy Mair. And I'm checking in with you. It's middle of summer. And I hope you're doing lots of reading. I know I sure am. And I'm working on our fall and upper my following up as we speak. But in the meantime, I wanted to offer up a different kind of podcast I'd like to share with you, I recently had the opportunity to be a guest on a podcast. And that podcast is the TallMikeWine Podcast hosted by Mike Stone. And here's sort of my equivalents, but in the wine world, and we ran into each other. I was on vacation about a year ago, in Sonoma, and he works at Nicholson Ranch, which is a great winery if you're in the area. And we got to talking and thought there might be a way for us to collaborate. So I just went on his podcast and gave a mini summer reading list. And at the same time, we paired the books with wine, and talked about all things wine, and I learned also to work on my wine adjectives. So I think I've got floral down and a couple of other things. So you have to listen in. But Tom, Mike is the real deal. He is very serious about his wine, but doesn't take himself too seriously. So I think that's a really good combo. And he's a former disc jockey. So I think he has a wonderful voice that you'll enjoy. So please check him out. And I will talk to you soon and I will be back in the fall with more episodes. Okay. Talk to you later. Bye. On the Tom Mike wine podcast, I saw Mike, how's it going? You don't have to call me Tom. Mike, if you don't want to okay, but you would be amazed at how many people just call me that when they meet me in person and have to add she is Canadian. I want to throw that out. Can I put ice in my mind? It might offend some people but it does not offend me. But I chose books because it's something that I know because I wanted it to seem authentic. It is your second choice. It would probably be knitting and you would not want my blind podcast. The cellphones have been silenced. The wine is poured. And just like that the podcast begins. It's the tall Mike wine podcast, the wine podcast that's not all about wine. Although wine can be boring, and who can sit still for that. The wind podcasts heard in 65 countries on six continents and in 48 of these United States, from Colorado, Ohio, to Detroit Lakes Minnesota, from Rawlins Wyoming to Paul's Bo Washington, where they make that Paul's bow bread, the bread whose recipe was inspired by the Bible. Pretty crazy. Paul's bow. Thanks for tuning in. I'm Mike stone, your host and eponymous tall wine guy. I work at a winery in Sonoma, California. And for more than half my life I've been really into wine. And I like to share the fun part with conversation. If you enjoy these conversations, scroll up and down and through the older episodes, get yourself caught up. Also, I'll nag you again about leaving a rating and a review on Apple podcasts and be sure you're subscribed on whatever app it is you're using. So you don't miss an episode. They tell me it helps a lot. Let's get to the conversation. It's episode 42. And my guest is a podcast host. She's also Canadian. Her podcast is not a wine podcast, but a podcast that focuses on books. We met when she and some friends visited Nicholson ranch so she has wine cred. Speaking to us via zoom from Vancouver BC the host of the Red Fern book review podcast Amy Mair. Hello, Amy. Hi, Tom. Mike. How's it going? I'm so happy to be here. I'm doing great. I'm doing well. You don't have to call me tall Mike, if you don't want to. But you would be amazed at how many people just call me that when they meet me in person. Because I'm tall. Weird. How long you go. Where are you in Sonoma? It seems like a while back to me. It was last spring and I was on a girls trip for a big milestone birthday for me. And I remember we had this great picnic at Nicholson ranch and then we moved over for wine tasting. And that's where I met you. Yes, it has happened a few times less than a handful where somebody I work with, says hey, there's a fellow podcaster In that group over there, you should go say hi. Or I'll be hosting someone and I'll mention the podcast. And they'll be like, Oh, I have a podcast. So here is the vague premise for this episode. Way, way back in the early 1990s. When I began my wine journey, I was invited wine tasting by some coworkers as a non wine drinking guy in his late 20s. One of the things I noticed as I got to know other people visiting the wineries, let's call them wine people, is they seem to be into things I was into, for example, food, not just talking about food they ate, but cooking, the ingredients, methods, time, they spent cooking food, shopping for things to cook, et cetera. Also, movies, not so much whatever the hot VCR rental of the moment was, but movies of a certain sort in the Art House Foreign specific movies from directors they liked. Going deeper than most people I knew at the time discussing things about the movies, and books, these people would talk about books they were reading, which wasn't unusual in and of itself. But again, it seemed to go just a little deeper, I got the feeling that books were more important more of a priority to my new acquaintances at these wineries, and I really liked that in a sort of aspirational way. My conclusion here is pretty simple. I think people that are more into wine who might listen to a wine podcast are more than likely into books as well now tell me if I'm sounding too elitist? Or does this make sense to you, Amy, it makes complete sense, I think they go together, I would say my book club definitely agrees with that. Because the number one reason we get together is actually I believe, not to read the books, but to connect. And so what that means is for probably the first hour that we're together, we're usually drinking wine, and hearing a charcuterie platter, and then we will go over and talk about the books, I think that goes together. But you know, I thought about some other commonalities. And people read for many reasons, I would say they read to learn to relax to escape. Just like people might unwind like a glass of wine after work, you might read a chapter of a book. And I think it's even better if you do both together, they are a great combination. But a couple other things I was thinking about is that all those things like say cooking wine, books, and movies, they're super accessible on one level. And if you want, you can do a deep dive, you can get really into it. And then you can spend hours connecting with people. And I find I've met all kinds of people. And another thing I don't know if you think this is true, but I was thinking about it. Sometimes it's a less vulnerable way of connecting with people. So I find people will argue and debate a character with me. And I feel like I've had this really intense discussion, but maybe I've actually had a bad day. But I feel kind of lighter and more enriched because I shared something with someone. And I love it when people get mad at the characters like their people. So I don't know if people get mad at the wine or I'm trying to think if people get mad at wine. I mean, there are definitely added characters like you search for a specific wine because you've heard certain things about it, or you've had certain wines of this sort, and then you find a different one. And it's not as good as you thought it was going to be. You might be mad or disappointed about that. I like where you're going with that. I don't know that I can really relate it to wine. But yeah, I mean, books are great because you're sharing a story that came out of somebody's brain. And the people aren't real. I have tasks. Amy with coming up with a small list of summer reading for us. We'll get to that in a little bit. But first, thank you for turning me on to a book called station 11. A few months back by Emily St. John Mandel. It was a really in my wheelhouse. Do you remember what you said about the book? Whatever it was, I went out and found it immediately. That book is amazing because it was actually written in 2014. And she predicts a pandemic. It was a avian flu. It's a flu. Okay. It was much more, of course severe than COVID-19 The Coronavirus because it wiped out. I mean, they don't really say in the book, specifically. It's very, very much a sort of post apocalyptic dystopian story and I kind of gravitate to is I don't know why that is. Economic repetative thing. Yeah. But in the book, it seems to me like the this virus has wiped out probably 95% of the population, which means there's nobody do any of the jobs that provide us modern comforts. There's no gasoline, so there are no cars. There's no electricity generated. So there's no electricity for lights, nothing is being manufactured. So everything that these people are using. Everything is just stuff they still have. I thought it was very relevant in light of what we've gone through. I obviously it's In a fantasy, or worst case scenario, I think the writing is off the hook. I love that. And I have to add, she is Canadian. So I want to throw that out. Oh, Canada. She also wrote a couple of other big books. And I think, did you talk about her in general on an episode, I did a podcast on Her most recent book, which is Sea of Tranquility. That's a big, big book. And this is a kind of science fiction where someone kind of keeps appearing in different moments in time. There's a word for that. She likes sci fi. And there's a future world and there's far in the past world. It's really, really, really good. When Canada was colonized, they would send wealthy either second born sons or sons that were a disappointment. They would send them to Canada, and kind of hope that they wouldn't come back. It's about one of those. No, that's how Canada was built. Partly not disappointing sons. The Second Sons, that's that's really interesting. I can't remember the name. I have to look it up. But it's like a cold something men and sent to far flung places because they needed people to colonize difficult places. Anyway, it's colonialists. It's an excellent all of her books. There's another one that's a take off on Bernie Madoff. It's called the glass hotel. It's also set in British Columbia. I think you'd like that too. All right. I'm gonna become an expert on Emily St. John Mandel, the works of let's talk about how you describe books, I find it really impressive, because I listen to your podcasts. And I think there's another common thread here. Because when wine people talk about wine, you know, the legit tasting notes full of flowery words and descriptions. People who visit me at the winery say, how do you do that? So Amy, how do you do that? Well, okay, I was thinking about this. And I was comparing it to wine again. So I drink wine on the regular, but I'm not confident to see what I think about it. If you ask me, and I'm probably going to ask me what I think about the one I'm drinking. I'll say it kind of quietly or not with confidence. So I think when I talk about books, I sell it, one of the number one things is I have confidence when I describe the books, I think that helps. Let me ask you this, because this is what this is, this is basically how we create this magical thing called a wine review, or a wine tasting note. We have a series of prompts. And it's basically you know, you can start anywhere you want it, you know, you start with the smell, okay, or the color. And there's a bunch of different you know, prompts like, is it this color? Is it this color? Is it this color? Is it lighter? That color? Is it more medium that color? Or is it deep that color? Now, the sudden you're using a deep magenta, and then you've already started off with this, like, wow, this wine is deep magenta, and that is a good way to start. And then the aroma, you want to know if it's if it's strong, or if it's not so strong. And then you just start pulling things out of it, you know, you can go from the fruits. And then you start sniffing and people say, I can't get the specific fruits like that. You always say Oh, cheerio, BlackBerry, oh, this, I say, Well, then don't worry about what specific fruit it is. Think about what color it is. And say it's red fruit is blue fruit. It's black fruit. Because I think when you taste something, and you say what color is it instead of saying What fruit do you taste? You're a little more vague. People can latch on to that. Yeah, I see. And then you start breaking it down. Okay, now we've decided it's red fruit is a darker red fruit. Is it heavier red fruit? Or is it lighter red fruit like a strawberry? Or is it a deep dark red fruit like a black, cherry or plum. And you just prompt yourself and you just work your way through and then you move from fruit and then you go to anything earthy. Anything wood Z. And then the one I always forget. And miss out on sometimes is floral? Do you smell any flowers? In this wine? Chances are you will, because wine tends to smell like flowers. That's kind of how it works. So do you do something similar to that when you while you're talking? I guess I do a little bit but not as structured, as you said. But I wrote down some adjectives that I use, because I was thinking about it. But I do first of all describe the genre to explain it because you know, what are we dealing with here is a historical fiction, what is it and within that I can have some adjectives. And then I often will compare it to something that you know, like one of the books I'm going to talk about today, I will compare it to a Quentin Tarantino movie. So I've said that and I know right now you probably have somewhat of a thought of what that could be like. So I'll try to pick something that everybody knows and then I just give my kind of reaction. I noticed that I will often use the same adjective Isn't it sometimes it's lazy, and sometimes it's good. And one of the words I like is atmospheric. Okay, station 11 is atmospheric, very much so very, very much. So it's funny that you mentioned Quentin Tarantino. That's very vivid for me. And if you were here in my studio, you would laugh because on the wall across from where I'm sitting, there are two movie posters framed. One of them is Reservoir Dogs. Oh, nice. Yeah. So you do have a series of prompts, but you don't call it that so much. That's sort of what I have. Because once you get to the point where you've been using the prompts, you just do that automatically. Now, if the question is wine, I know there's obviously subjectivity to what you're doing. But is there is it pretty objective? Like if you're trained? Could I taste the wine? You're drinking and taste floral? And you don't? And is that? Yes, those both? Correct. It's this is something I always assure people at the winery is wine tasting is a 100% subjective pursuit, just like books. Because you're tasting the wine and smelling the wine with your body, parts of your body. And those parts of body of your body have been formed over the course of your whole life. How do you know what this smells like? How do you know what that smells like? You might not know what some things smell like that other people do because they were exposed to those things throughout the course of their life. And an example I always use is my girlfriend Sabrina. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest. And she grew up in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. So I'm really good with foresty things. She's really good with tropical fruit. And tropical fruit comes up as sort of a mainstay and when you're tasting certain wines, certain categories of wines, Chardonnays from the same region. For example, if you look through a whole bunch of reviews from those Chardonnays you're gonna see the towards tropical fruit come up all the time, and they might even delve into the actual fruits, you know, pineapple, guava, et cetera. So I you know, I grew up in the Northwest, and we didn't we didn't have a lot of fancy food in my house when I was a kid. But we did have canned pineapple occasionally. So tropical fruit I understand to be pineapple. I know the smell. So I can swirl that. Somebody says tropical fruit. I'm like, oh, yeah, I get that. I get pineapple. Yeah, yeah. Swirling, swirling, swirling. I'm sitting on the couch. And Sabrina is with me. I'll say, Let's smell this tropical fruit is all about pineapple. And she's like whom? findable. And there's guava. And there's papaya. And there's mango. She's got them in her head. Right? I don't. Right? I didn't grow up in Rio de Janeiro. Right? So it is to get back to your original question. No matter how much education you have, no matter how much you think you've exercised your palate and developed your vocabulary as relating to sense memory, which is all this is, it's all about remembering what that is from when you tasted or smelled it. At some point in your entire life. No two people are tasting the exact same wine in the same way. Because you're tasting it with your like your tongue, your tongue is your tongue. And nobody else's tongue has lived that same life now people in your family might. You know, I've never even thought about this. Do you have brothers and sisters? I do have two older sisters. So you guys might have similar palates, because you grew up in the same house with the same parents cooking the same food and going to the same places on vacation and smelling various things that uniquely to your family and your journey. But still, you're going to have some differences of opinion. You might say I like this one, and your sister might say you're wrong. And of course you're not. But she might say that right? Because that's the way sisters. Yeah, yeah. And I'm the youngest, so Oh, okay. Not gonna be right. I'm the middle child of three, three boys. All right, you anticipated this moment. And it has finally come the moment on the podcast where I say to my guest, Amy, what skin your class? Okay, before I do this, I'm going to ask the question, and I'm not going to do it if it's going to offend you. But I can always edit it out. I put ice in my wine. And I wasn't going to do it. But I won't do it. But I was just wondering, what are your thoughts on that? It might have been it might offend some people, but it does not offend me. Now, caveat. If you've spent more than 20 or $30 on this bottle of wine, I would say don't do don't do that. Because you're you're altering the flavor. Okay, I'm not gonna do that. So yeah, but you have a wine that's a little more expensive than that or no, no, it's like, Well, this was $3. Canadian and I don't know what it would be for you because it depends on it could also depend on the tax on the wine because sometimes the tax I'm going to leave it as is but okay, I don't know if I'm pronouncing this correctly. But you asked me to find a book with wine connection. So yes, the first books I'm going to talk about has that and you It takes place in Orvieto, Italy. And I could not find at my local wine store, I could not find a wine base there, which I was secretly kind of relieved about because the wine that I was looking for was a sweet white, which I don't like. This is in the book that's in the book. So what I did was I found a wine. If I pronounce it correctly, it's from Lazio, Italy. And it's called the Lesko Podio de Chelsea. And it's a white wine, and it's a little on the drier side. And you should you send me a picture of it last night, and I did a whole bunch of research. So it's from a region called Matthias going name. They actually have do you have the bottle there? On the front? It just says the name of the wine and the winery in the vintage. And when I looked at that, I thought, okay, there must be a little more to that. So I looked at that wine and it told me where it came from. And it said, month a via scone A. And before the word month, a few Sconnie. Is there is there back label, there is a label on the back, it's hard to read it because it's it's clear with the writing on it. Oh, it mentions the line that I know you're going to talk about which is what known for past AST s Test test test, and the three tests one of the first one has one exclamation mark, the second one has two and the third one has three and that's actually a part of the region. The proper name of the region is est est est monta vs. Coney. Okay, so this is first of all, this is a blend of three different grapes or skeptiko Trebbiano, which is one of the most widely planted white wine grapes in all of Italy. And Malva sia now the grown on rocky soils of the month of Visconti this vineyard is at 400 meters which is about 1300 feet, which is fairly high altitude. Now, here are the tasting notes. Prominent green herbal nose, would you agree? Oh gosh. Now I'm just see I'm prompting you saying do you get anything herbal? Does it smell a little bit green? Do you smell any green figs? Because this is in the note green figs, citrus underripe pair? I definitely don't can't tell the pair. It's a kind of little if I can use the word sharp, which I like. Okay. I feel it grabs you a little bit. Yeah. Okay. There's a little bit minerally on the finish. Okay, does it like yeah, like you just licked a rock or something? I'm sure. Yeah, I wouldn't have thought to say that. But yeah, some of these wind things, you know, are really parsing them. It's like, why do we even have to go there you know. And then it says here it's a versatile like for seafood, and vegetables. So now the name es este este, a 12th century Bishop traveling to the Vatican to meet the Pope sent a scout ahead to survey the villages along the route searching for the best wines. And he was to Mark asked, Latin for it is on the door of the NS where the wine impressed is a guide for the bishop to follow up at a month a fee is gonna be in the scout fell in love with the local wine and wrote est, est EST on the door. And the rest, as they say, is history. The story sort of got bastardized, I guess at some point because then there's another story about a 12th century German Bishop John Fuger. Traveling to Rome for the coronation of Henry the Fifth as the Holy Roman Emperor and on his travels who were sent his major demo ahead of him to taste the local wines report back which wines were Vinum St. bonum. As with other retellings, the Midge Domo documented his research by writing St. Chuck on the door of establishments whose wines he enjoyed and being so impressed with the wines at month a few scone a punctuated his message with multiple est est est. The bishop himself was also so impressed with the wines that he canceled the rest of his journey, and stayed in monta Visconti until his death and today there is a tomb in a local church in multifeed stony believed to be the resting place of Bishop Fulgur Wow. historic venue vineyard let's 900 year old history right there. Or I guess we could say, legend, because we don't know. We don't know if that's real, but it's kind of fun. That's another reason I love wine. So you like this wine then? I like it a lot. I like a drier wine. It doesn't have okay, I know if I'm using the right words, but it doesn't have a strong aftertaste to me. Is that okay? Strong in a bad way? Yeah, not in a bad way. Because when you say the word aftertaste in wine terms what we're all looking for us wine people with an aftertaste. We don't call it Dex actually sounds negative. We call it the finish. Okay, when you swallow the wine, what happens in your mouth? Is it a good thing and does it linger? Oh, I see. Okay, is that easier? I find that easier with a red wine to tell. That is that you should have some finish on a white wine. But typically red wines are more complex in general because of the winemaking process. But I can taste a little I'm reading, there's a little sailing taste and I taste that. So it's in the notes that I have. It's a little it gets a little salty. Yeah, I like that. I think it's good. Typically when you're when you swallow wine, two things are gonna happen. Your mouth gets drier and or your mouth waters. Drier means you just experienced tannins, which is compound in the skins of the grapes that dries your mouth out. And then the mouth watering is from the acidity in the wine. And that's a good thing too, because it balances out the fruit flavor. Because if you just have this fruit and there's no counteracting acidity, then you get a wine that we call flabby. Oh, well, I'm happy to discover this. I would amazing, right. It is interesting. I will put a picture of Amy's wine on my Instagram, and a picture of Amy sitting in her. What room are you in? This is our dining room. I love the wallpaper. Thanks. I have some funky wallpaper. It's like big circles that are I think they're supposed to be kind of flowers, but they're modern. It looks a little bit psychedelic to me. Like it looks like this could be you could be sitting in a dining room that was wallpapered in 1968 You know I'm like, ya funky they hit the other hippies came in and remodeled the house. Yeah. All right, let's get this list out here. Amy's summer reading recommendations. I am excited for this. Okay, so I picked three books and I tried to think all books I think are a bit crowd pleasers. When I think it's summer reads, I think of a super, super easy book, or maybe a longer involved saga. Okay, that's that was gonna be a question I was gonna ask you like, what makes it a summer book, but you just you just nailed it right there was there to maybe a thriller. This first, but that is just clearly meant. So this is the villa I'm gonna recommend. The first one I'm gonna recommend is the villa. And it's clearly like, meant for a book club. It's kind of hitting a lot of those sweet spots for I would say, a female reader. It's called the villa. It's by Rachel Hawkins. And she's written a few different thrillers. And she wrote a book called The wife upstairs. And it's kind of got a lot of things going on. But basically, it's two women in their 30s, Emily and chess. And they've been best friends since they were little girls. They're now novelists, each of them wow. One is more successful than the other and they kind of lost touch a little bit. I would say they're kind of frenemies. Oh, so like this already. So Emily's kind of not having a good time. She's getting divorced. She's having trouble with her writing. And chess is very successful. And she comes to us again, you know, that friend that just kind of comes back into town. And it's just like, hey, let's get together. And yeah, where we left off. And she's like, Listen, I've rented this villa for six weeks. And she's very successful in Italy. And we're going to go there. We're going to drink wine and read books. Not kidding. And escape. Let's go. And she's like, awesome. I want to get out of my life. Let's go. They go. And it's a villa and or beato. And there is a little paragraph, I could read about the wine itself. You know, please do let's hear it. Okay, so they kind of get there. And when they get there, they start to tour the villa, but they really want to get to eating and drinking and hanging out. So they start to make dinner and they say, we feast on the asparagus cooked with lemon and olive oil and the chicken and potatoes, the gravy somehow rich and vibrant all at once. All of it washed down with cold glasses of the Orvieto wine the region is famous for. It's sweeter than I normally drink, but it tastes like summer. By the time I get up from the table. I'm fuller than I've been in ages and also more than a little tipsy. The wine is sort of setting that scene. Yeah, what happens? There's a couple of other storylines. So while they're there, they start to uncover a mystery. The Rolling Stones, I think, in the 60s 70s recorded an album in Europe at Villa. And so they're kind of recreating, it's not the Rolling Stones. But there has been a murder many years ago from a rock band visiting this villa, will start to uncover a mystery. That's the thriller part. And then it's got and that storyline. So they kind of alternate voices in different points of view that was inspired by Did you watch Daisy Jones in the six on television or you might have read the book? No, I don't even know who that is. Okay, so it's a book and it's about it's inspired by Fleetwood Mac and it's a big hot book and a big show. And so it's basically about kind of groovy now 1970s Rock and roll, okay, that storyline going on where they're investigating this murder at these young people kind of overtaking this mansion in the 70s, partying and recording an album. And then the last storyline is Frankenstein. The book came about that whole story because a bunch of Percy Shelley and Mary Shelley ended up on at a villa kind of like this villa. So all these people have those names. So there's kind of all these things happening. And then also funny enough, although I don't know this lands, there's a some podcasters in their and a separate storyline that are also investigating this murder. But I think they're there just because podcasting is trendy, right and true crime is huge and true crimes. So this book, I would give it four stars, it's not five, but I think it's one of those books that you take on a beach, preferably with a glass of wine, and you really enjoy it. You escape, but I don't think for me, it didn't stay with me forever. But that's kind of what I want in a summer read. For summer read, I don't want to be taxed. I just want to have some fun. So do you want to enjoy it in the moment? Yeah. Okay, what's next? The next one is I'm gonna put the names of all these books in the authors in the show notes. So if you scroll down the show notes from this episode as you're listening, if you're driving, don't do that right now. The next one is a lot of fun. It's called age advice. And here's the cover you can see it's for people listening. It's a black cover with just great gold letters. Like that. I want to get picked for a crime thriller that in India, it's by a young author, her name is deep T Kapoor and this book is long. It looks a little thick. Yeah, you're holding up a thick book there. How many pages? It's 600 550. But it is a page turner. It's not hard to read. Okay. It's a book about gangsters, lovers, false friendships, forbidden romance and corruption. And this is the book that is sort of this Quentin Tarantino style. Okay. Well, look, I think what people like about it is it set in India, and it gets into, you know, the versus strong class system in India. And it kind of looks at everything from the deep poverty to crime families, wealthy people, there's a lot going on. The book is about the wadiya crime family. There's a servant who kind of comes from super humble beginnings, but it's somehow caught up in all this. There's a play the son who's kind of named Sonny, He's a playboy. He's trying to outdo his father, but he's kind of just not doing anything and just partying. Now send him to Canada. Yeah, they might send him to Canada. That's right. Good. To get one. And then there's Anita, who's a curious journalist, and she is falling in love with Sonny, and she's kind of caught between reporting the truth of the story, and then her love for him. And it starts off with I guess, I would say just just to tell you what it starts off with. There's a speeding Mercedes jumps the curb, and five people die. All this page one. This is page one. Wow. It's a rich man's car. But the rich man isn't there and the servant is there. No. So that's how it starts. And it's unfortunate. What I liked about it is it's the author's young, so it's a very fresh book, it's moves quickly. It's pretty violent. So I found that difficult, but everyone I've talked to liked it. And I think this would also appeal to men, women, all kinds of people. Okay. All right, you have one more for us. The last one is called Yellow Face by Rf Wang. And it is my favorite book that I've read this year. Oh, do you have it there? Oh, I don't have it because I lent it out. Sorry. Just send me a picture of it. Okay, I'll send you a picture. All these things for the Instagram post. It deals with diversity, racism, cultural appropriation. Also, with the heart of it. It's a lot about the bad things that can happen on social media, on Twitter and that kind of thing. And basically, it's to women, young women who went to Yale, and their rising novelists. So this is another novelists theme. One of them is Asian one of them isms, and then there's a bad accident and the Asian woman Her name is Athena. She dies. And she's an incredible writer like she's a rising star. And in a very quick moments, her supposed friend steals her manuscript for a book and passes it off as her own. No That's, that's the setup. Okay? No, that is that's a device. It's been used a bunch of times. Right? You know what you're right about that. And that two books that just came out that were very good. There's a book called the plot, by Jean have four legs. And that's about the same thing. And then there's a book called, who is Maude Dixon by Alexandra Andrews. And it does the same. But I think what I liked this book is, first of all, the author super young, so I almost can't quantify the writing. It's just she's like 26 or 27. And she's just doing something really fresh and new, like a different language. Yes, it's like a different language. She talks about racism, she herself is Asian, and you'll be uncomfortable at moments, you learn a lot. Like it's she's just talking about tropes, and it's a thriller. And the writing is good. So I just couldn't put it down. I thought it was really good, really creative and new. Very nice. Yeah, very, very nice. I'm starting to get a little sweaty thinking about that book. How do you choose which books to read, and end up on your podcast? Where's a great place to read about books? When I start, I read what I naturally like just that I if I wasn't doing a podcast, because I feel that people will hear the authenticity and my voice if I really like it, and of course, and I like thrillers, I like literary fiction, historical fiction memoirs, but that can be a little limiting. I can't do everything on that. So I bring on people with different viewpoints. And I'll bring on friends or authors themselves to talk so I can try new things and learn where do I find books? New York Times for sure. All right, I speak to my friends. There's a blog in Canada called 40 Nights shelf, which I learned about new Canadian authors. I would say that staff shelf of any really great indie bookstore, you can look this at the staff picks and what you're looking for is at any given time, the more I do this, there's only kind of like 20 bucks maximum at a time in the world that people are not maybe in North America that are getting touted. And there's some great books. Go to a really great independent store, you might find something stumbled across something that you wouldn't, so is your chance to give a shout out to your local independent bookstore. Oh, okay. I gotta give a shout out to Hager books. It's in my neighborhood nager books in Vancouver, in Vancouver neighborhood are you in? I'm in a neighborhood called Kerrisdale. I just subscribed to a cool bookish newsletter called The millions. I really don't know where it comes from. I don't know if those that someone mentioned on a podcast and I subscribed and I like it so far. When I have time to read it. Sometimes it just comes in drops in my mailbox. And I'm like, Okay, I'll just keep that there. And then there's like two or three weeks worth, but it's called the millions. I'm sure it's based in New York City similar. The New Yorker for me is also a good source of book reviews. And long stories about authors. Here where I live in Marin County, California, there's a bookstore called book passage. And if there's a author making his way into the Bay Area, oftentimes they will show up at book passage was actually just a 15 minute drive from my house. Yeah, I mean, this is Morgan counties a little bit shishi in that way, for sure. And there's a local chain here called copper fields that has few locations, and one is just a few minutes drive from my house. Sometimes those bookstores has really good ones have great Instagrams or newsletters, Oh, totally. Or you can get good ideas because I opposite indie bookstores are great because they're usually staffed with people that read a lot. And it's really it feels good to go into a bookstore and talk to people to like books. Totally. Are you ready to find out what's in my glass? Yes, all I know is it's red, so it is red because it's swirling wine. Well, you have Italian wine in your glass. So I decided to put Italian wine in my glass. The wine I am currently sipping is a fairly inexpensive read and I'm loving and I'm like sucking it down while we're talking. But if we don't finish the interview, reason, Mike just got drunk. This is a winery that I've had wine from before, but I've never had this particular wine because this is sort of their starter red blend. The wineries called MK two pillows. So the wind is called Ah, cool. That's a space cue you Oh, this is based on the Latin, depending on what website you look at. It sort of means where we begin, and this is sort of their entry level. Red wine 2017 Vintage month. villosa is on the coast of Tuscany, in an area called Bolgheri which is one of the hottest areas in Tuscany, so they grow a lot of those darker thicker skin grapes. And the winemaker is a Swiss guy named Fabio Ciara loto. And he says it's easy to produce these wines because they're so concentrated because we live in such a hot climate. What is hard is to achieve elegance and finesse, he's already admitting like I've got the good fruit. And I could just make the wine and it would be amazing, but I'm going to make it even better than that. And it's true. I've had three or four of the wines that they produce from just 17 acres. So this is a small, small winery. They make some higher end stuff. They've got one called Nardo, which is a Tuscan dialect word for lavender. They make wine called gabbro, which is 100% Cabernet Sauvignon. And then annual, which is their red blend. It's a little bit more expensive than the Aqua that I am drinking. It's a blend of 30% Multiple Ciano 30% Cabernet Sauvignon 20% Sangiovese Z 10% Mar salon, and 10% Allah Conte, that's five grapes. Four of them are Italian grapes. One of them is a French Bordeaux grape. The very basic way you would subscript describe this wine is it's a super Tuscan, which means they're using it Suskind grapes, but they're adding something different in there to make it a little more impressive. The Cabernet Sauvignon, this one is great, that we retails for like 25 bucks. What would you serve that with? Or how would you? I mean, you're drinking it here, but what kind of food would you run out of drinking it all by itself? on an empty stomach, anything of that kind of rustic Mediterranean thing you know, seared meats, seared vegetables, it's summertime. So you fire up the grill and you get some veggies on there. And you put some, maybe some Italian sausages on there, maybe some maybe some steaks, keep it simple. This is one of those wines that doesn't need a lot of adornment around it with food because it really the flavors are very bright. They really pop. And I mentioned lavender, and the name of one of the wines is not this one. But there's definitely a good hit of something very floral, lavender re on the nose. And then it gets into all the red fruits, all the different cherries and raspberries and blackberries. So it's darker red fruits. That's really good. I wish you were here because it's one of those. I'm in a house by myself right now. Like, I wish there was somebody to share with me. Yeah, it sounds really good. And then it gets really juicy in the mouth, which tasted then all of a sudden your wine, your mouth just starts to water. And it's like you just bid into the whole cluster of grapes. And like a almost like you can feel the juice running down your chin. You know, have some listeners up in Vancouver, you do I get the I get the download stats from my podcast host site. Oh, that's fine. And it says that I have some Vancouver listeners. Maybe you're one of them. I don't know, I'm one of them. I am one of them. The funny thing about the statistics we get as podcasters is just vague locations where the listeners are coming from, not who these people are really, I do have a great friend up your way. And my friend Sam, who's a geologist, she may be tuning in, but I do get downloads from BC. Let's talk about starting a podcast. I think we started around the same time, give or take a few months. Tell me what prompted you to start a podcast? Well, I'd never heard a podcast until COVID head. And one thing in Canada, we had super strict rules like more than the United States. And we really couldn't even at one point, barely leave the house. And so I'm home and I discovered podcasts and they became how I got through COVID. And I was so interested in the intimacy of it have a journalism background. I like that you could find something very specific, like so specific. Yeah. And it would do a deep dive. And I just I thought it seemed like the person was something if they're done really well, if they're talking directly to me. I just challenged myself that following January. So January 2021. Really just to do something creative and use skills in a different way. My main goal was to do a podcast, it wasn't to do books. But I chose books because it's something that I know, because I wanted it to seem authentic. Like it was your second choice. Oh, weird. It's it would probably be knitting and you would not we probably wouldn't have met, we probably wouldn't have met. So I just thought that there's a couple of things. I can talk about knowledgeably and I thought I just did it for fun. And I didn't have an agenda with it and it just kind of kept going and I got some followers. I really like it. Yeah, I don't know. What about you. When did you start it and why? January of 2021 the same? Yeah. Just like you I didn't know anything about podcasts. I'd heard about them. They were out there bouncing around because I come from the world of radio. Okay, so I I worked in radio for 15 years, up until about the latter part of the 1990s at the apex of the Dave Matthews sensation, and I got out of business because it just wasn't fun anymore. And I stumbled into restaurant work by, by accident. And that worked with my love of wine, which I had already had. I already had love of wine, radio career, which means now I can talk about wine like somebody who knows what they're talking about, because that's what radio is come up with a soundbite. What's the natural progression for you like, it's just so easy that with that, right, radio, the radio thing stayed dormant in me though, from 1998 until the latter 20 teens when podcasts came around, and I'm like, Oh, they're creating little shows. I can create a little show. Okay, and so I thought about for a long time. And then I got an email, you know, from just some thing relating to podcasts. And there was this host site that I use now, that was all about looking at our videos. This is how you started a podcast. And I'm like, Okay, how does it work? Because now because you use Buzzsprout? I use Buzzsprout. Yeah. And they're so helpful. They are actually so I started looking at these videos, then I got an account and I thought, Okay, I got an account now. I just need to do it. So I did it. I talked to my boss and said, Hey, I'm thinking of starting a wine podcast. I want you to be my first guest. So he sat for an interview. And my boss is a guy from India. I don't know if you met him when you were at the winery, Deepak Okay, he's the guy from India is making wine in Sonoma, California. And the story how we got from point A to point B is just lots of twists and turns. And I think that's really a fun thing about a lot of us in the wine business. Because none of us grew up as kids people saying, What do you want to be when you grow up, and you're that I want to work in a winery? I find it it's a great form of storytelling, and it's very autobiographical. And it can be very relatable, because most of us who we are today is not who we thought we were going to be when we were little kids. No. And so I figured out how the technical thing worked. And then I started the podcast. But yeah, I was already I was like a podcast host waiting to happen. Somebody just had to light the fuse I need to but little bit different was interesting. Because when we first talked, we talked, what after we first met and what I realized you are in it, you really want to connect and hear about people's individual stories. And for me, I was kind of had that journalist hat as I wanted to provide information, right? Also be creative. I think we meet somewhere in the middle with wanting to be creative and have fun, but I really appreciate that about you that you were like, I just want to like connect and get to know the why behind people. And I want to put on a show. Yes, exactly. My view is more about it's a show, you know, it starts with like a little bit of here's a preview, here's some clips, here's your music. Bam, bam, bam. And then here's my que, because I like to put on a show and I've done with all the editing and I uploaded and scheduled a release. I feel like I'm unveiling a new painting. Yeah, it's really, yeah, it's a great, it's a great, great feeling. What's the oddest or funniest or strangest thing that's happened to you while you were recording your podcast? Well, this won't surprise you because you have experienced in radio. But one of the problems I had when I started I used to handwrite my or not handwrite write out my scripts doesn't work. But what I didn't understand is what people are really looking for within reason is the mistakes. Because then you become human. I had my dog barged in, someone was knocking on the door. I couldn't get recording started. I kept that in. But the biggest thing that happened was I had a friend of mine who's a sci fi nerd. And I had no interest in sci fi. And then I kind of made him read something that I thought might have appealed to my listeners. And we both didn't like the book. And I refused to finish the book. I couldn't sleep because I was like, Well, no one's gonna want to listen. And I didn't, I'm glad everybody down. He was one of my biggest episodes because I just won. And I was like, I don't like this book at all. In fact, I didn't finish it. It's because you are real. You let the real Amy be seen by your audience. And people really liked it. And I had literally thought, oh my god, I'm gonna lose listeners. That was a really big turning point for me, because it allowed me to kind of relax a bit and realize that I don't have to tell everybody everything. And really what I am is I'm an ambassador for reading. I want to get people excited. They don't have to know everything. And they do want to connect, they want to know what's going on in your life within reason. They totally do. Yeah, so anyway, that was I would say not finishing a book and then going on and talking about it and complaining about it. It's just like when I have a wine I open a wine like I you know, I try and bring wines onto the show that have some kind of a story. Yeah, and they're fun to talk about, like your wine like my wine today. And I've done this before where you know, I've had a guest sitting with me in the studio we put together up the winery. When we do we'll do it live and in person. We're like, well, this isn't this isn't great. Eat, you know, we're all amped to really get into this wine and then you open it. It's like, yeah, it doesn't really work. And it's real. You know, it's not like when you turn on say, you know, Good Morning America or whatever, and they're doing this thing and everything is, yeah, this is amazing. This is a great thing. And it's amazing. And it's amazing. And it's great. And we all love it. And no, they never say, Yeah, this, this isn't this isn't what we thought it was going to be. No, because that's, that's the real experience. You know, you you go out shopping for something or you find a recipe for something you want to cook, and you follow it to the letter and then you taste it. You're like, Yeah, this is, let's get a pizza. That was kind of your moment. Let's get pizza. Yeah, I didn't like this book. Let's just get a pizza book. Your podcast is the Red Fern book review. I know you named it for a favorite book Where the Red Fern Grows, which I've never read. And I know it was a movie in the 1970s. And it was remade in the early 2000s. I still remember like, vaguely being in a movie theater as a kid seeing a preview for Where the Red Fern Grows. And looking back on me like, whatever it was 10 year old me at the time, there was a feeling in the pit of my stomach watching that trailer like oh, that's gonna be fucking sad. It is. Yeah, so I never saw Where the Red Fern Grows. But you named your podcast after it. Tell me why it was probably one of the first chapter books I read. It's was written in 1961. It's about a young boy in the Ozarks with to read, they're called Redbone Coonhounds. They're hunting dogs. Yeah. Big Dan little and it was those arcs. And basically, spoiler alert, the dogs dying. No, you gotta know, just smell the dogs. It's gonna rip your heart out. I didn't know that was gonna happen. It's for kids. And I got so attached to the dogs. And there's this like, very heartwarming ending. There's like a parable throughout about a Red Fern and it ends up sprouting out through one of their graves one there and I just I think I cried for like a week. What I I think the point is, I don't know now how good or bad it was. Really was the first time I understood that. Books have that kind of power. Right? Totally. And that's, that's why that's a great lesson. And but me I'm just like, No, I'm out. No. is gonna get really sad. I'm, I am not here for it. Have you guessed it on many podcasts? Amy? No, this is the first time and it's so much fun. And it's hard. Like it's getting easier now. But like, it's hard to be asked the questions like I like it. I like asking the questions. Oh, answering see. So it's really good to see understand. When I have guests how they might feel sure. No, this is good. This is a good like a turnabout kind of thing. Yeah, but I'm a pretty easy Inquisitor. I mean, I'm not like, you know, I'm not like, well, this from 60 minutes. No, yeah. Are there other podcasts you listen to the you might recommend? There's two that I'm really into right now. One is called wiser than me. And it's oh, this is? I just literally Dr. Julia Louis Dreyfus, right. Somebody mentioned that to me. So she's interviewing older women and finding that relevance and big name women like Jane Fonda, Amy Tan, and she's also hilarious, like, so she interviews on a garden and halfway through, she's like, can I ask you about that chicken recipe? Could I do this like she gets, it's just so funny. Like, she just is very good. These women talk about their past and what made them who they are. And I think it's great. And it's funny. The other one that I'm super into is called Dear therapists with two therapists Laurie Gottlieb and Guy winch. And then someone comes on writes in the letter and has a serious problem, and they help solve it. And it's actually really, really helpful. So if you don't go to therapy, this is a free therapy. Okay. Entertaining. I heard an ad I was listening to podcasts the other day. And, you know, when when a podcast from like a celebrity or a well known podcast is ads, and there's usually ads for other podcasts. I'm usually if I'm in the car, you know, I can't quite reach the phone. And I shouldn't look at the phone when I'm driving anyway, so But I try and you know, skim through the ads, but I couldn't skim through the ad because I was, you know, driving and slept traffic. All of a sudden, this ad comes on for a books podcast, and I'm like, Oh, it's a book podcast. Cool. I can talk. I can talk to me about this. It was a podcast called Moms don't have time to read books. Have you heard of this? I think she might be the biggest podcast in my space. Oh, you know what? I hated the ad. The woman's name is Zb Owens. Yeah, it's a lot but she's a mom for kids. But she has this Yeah, I'm a mom. And we don't have time to read books. And it's kind of this cartoony mom persona that she puts on. And I'm, like, talk to me, like, I'm a real person. Don't talk to me like I'm a child, this adult or I don't even know what she's going for. But I just my started God the year, I want to say she started like a long time ago. And like 2016 2018, what she does is her whole thing is is super short and sweet. She brings on an author, and she brings on all the best authors, they all go see her whatever the latest book is. And it's short, like, it's 30 minutes or less. She's got tons of energy. It's super accessible. But I like something more nuanced. Personally, I just felt like it was here's a big schmear of very sweet, overly sweet, sickening jam. Please enjoy. I think for the average reader, people will like it because they get an interview with the author. But for me, I want something a little more. I think, personally, as a listener, I want something a little more subtle. I just hated the whole idea of her podcast. And then I Googled her. Oh, she's a big deal. I found out she's a big deal. But you know what? She's also the daughter of a billionaire. Yeah, that's true. That doesn't. There's another reason to think. Sure, zippy. Last question, where do you read? Mostly, what are the perfect conditions for you? And is there a dangerous looking stack of books there right now? I'm thinking about my bedside table. I have books everywhere in the house. But I would say, I have kids that are grown up to boys. But I used to, I still am a morning person. And I did it because it was when no one was around. I'd like to get up early. And I read it and knock off the kitchen for probably about an hour. And I like it because nobody's around bugging me. And then I'm free to be bugged when they're up. If they're if they're home, or if my husband's home. But one of my biggest problems is I put a lot of books on hold at the library. And so I feel under artificial pressure to finish like, I could just pay the dollar, or I could just turn it back in. But I'm like, no, no, no, I have to read because I have to get back into. Right. Well, well, that's good that you're patronizing the library though. That's, that's an important thing to know, though. I mean, all these books. Yeah, I read in bed. I try and read during the day, but I just find that I've got other things I want to do when I have spare time. So it's hard for me, I'm probably down to reading one or two books a year. I hate to admit that somebody who hosts books podcast. You know what, though, it is so hard, like it's hard to fit it in. And you've got so many options now. And the truth is, I would read a lot but I wouldn't read as much as I do. I probably read half as much as I do. I do because I am doing this podcast. I think having a podcast gives you an excuse to read more books. Yeah, I'm gonna use that for for drinking more wine. This is for the podcast. It's just research. It's just research. Slippery slope. Yes. Hey, thanks for hanging out with us. That was really fun. Thank you so much for having me on. They learned a lot too. And now you've made me more confident to like use wine adjectives. Good. Hang on. I'm going to read the closing credits. Okay. Okay. V tall Mike wind podcast was conceived and is written, produced, edited and maintained by yours truly. Today's episode came to you from my home studio in Novato, California. I'd love to hear from you. If you have a question, a comment, a suggestion? Or a guest or a topic or if you want to have your very own stack of official tall Mike wind podcast coasters. I didn't show you the coasters. Amy, did I give you one when you came to visit? You did? Oh, you have one? I have one. Okay, good. Thank you. It's a nice coaster. It is a nice coaster. And if you'd like to have your own you can email me at Tom Mike wine@gmail.com to see behind the scenes of today's episode and to follow along as I drink wine and cook and eat some delicious food and otherwise live the good life. Follow me on Instagram at tal Mike wine. Did you drop that five star review yet on Apple podcasts? Come on. What's the whole Bob? That tell me it helps a lot. Thanks to Amy Mair for hanging out. I'll have another episode for you soon. But for now, I'm Mike stone. Keep swirling. Keep sniffing. keep sipping Cheers.